Curse

Lydz · Apr 12, 2007, 06:24 PM // 18:24

/signed

Some of these quests are simply too hard. My m8 was stuck for 2 weeks at the Gate of Madness. Man...is that a FRUSTRATING mission!

terminatorofhell · Apr 12, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

tone down DoA please?

SleetDragon · Apr 12, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Alright guys lets sit back and look at the majority of players who play this game. If you take for example that this game has been out for about two years you can see why a trend of increasing difficulty is needed, I would say that about 50% of the population of Guild Wars has all 3 Campigns, now I will give you the BOTD (Benefit of the doubt) that maybe some own just one and/or two. However with that being said the games themselves have seemed to up the ante, this most likely being because ANET believes in a balance (Thats why they change skills and aspects of the game all the time.). Many think that ANET has properly balanced certain missions but you must always consider where these missions are and whether "you" think they were suppose to be easy.If you think there should be an easy mode its because you are lazy they are meant to be a challenge. You may stress that its just a game to have fun, yes that is true, but please... If you look at the complaint list so far we have Gate of Madness, ROT, and DOA. Gate of Madness I admit is no walk in the park but with the correct timing and getting the bonus.(***Most impotantly) it isnt terribly hard (Me and a friend did it with 6 other heros).As far as ROT goes if you cant do it, dont do its as simple as that. And lastly DoA besides the fact that it is whether you like it or not an Elite End of game Area, it is meant to be hard because of the rewards you recieve. If you find missions in Guild Wars too hard, perhaps your not thinking about the mission. Many people have accomplished these feats already and usually offer advice on it, my suggestion is seek their advice. Guildwiki.org is a great example for help if you cant figure something out. When you sit down and think of how to do stuff it isnt really as hard as you thought. You have realize ANET is not all about seperating good players and bad players they are simply making things more balanced for more effective and fun gameplay. They are not out to get the new players so please get that notion out of your head.

Kool Kirby · Apr 12, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

What I would like is that all classes can be used in all places. I don't own Nightfall, but speaking for Urgoz and the Deep, lets give an example mindset:

Player "X" buys Factions. He's like "oh yeah, the deep and urgoz is gonna rockz0r!" He makes a sin. When he finally get ferried after going through the campaign, he has a nice green weapon, full shrouded armor, he gets into urgoz. Guess what? Assassins have NO PLACE in urgoz. Angry, he goes to the deep. Guess what? Assassins have no place in the deep. Angrier still, he buys nightfall because the heroes might help him. Guess what? He gets to domain of anguish. And I'm sure assassins have no place there either.

And its the same for most classes that are pvp-oriented. Mesmers another HUGE one.

Point=Make all classes contribute in all areas. The builds are so cookie-cutter in urgoz/deep these days that everyone is so damned nostalgic, and does not want to try out any stupid build, and this is on top of taking 2 hours to make a group.

ca_aok · Apr 12, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

If the "L33tist" players ingame had their way, the entire campaign would be one huge FOW, UW or DOA! Their never happy until it takes 30 minutes just to kill one mob of creatures.

Since FoW is clearable with 2-3 players I'm pretty sure it's not that "difficult" of an area. UW Could be 100% soloed if it wasn't for dying nightmares, or at least duoed. DoA is about as hard as PvE gets, and except for mallyx (who is a broken boss and is only killable by glitching him), it's all doable with any class, except for perhaps assassins since they are a low AL melee class and monsters in DoA aren't built to be fought toe to toe. Every other class can and has been used successfully, my guild has various players who have run paragon tanks, domination mesmers, channeling rits, and spirit spam rangers without too much trouble. Even assassins -can- tank, it's just a much slower process and in an area that already takes hours to clear, most people aren't willing to donate their time.

As for the RoT in general... yes it's an annoying area, but only because monsters have a 200dmg deep freeze and respawn each other. Bring concentrated spike damage and a decent monk backline (LoD+Prot monk ftw) and the RoT is easy. I have never failed Gate of Madness, which seems to be heralded as the hardest mission in GW. Simply kill everything but shiro and then cap all five shrines, making it a breeze to kill him. Bring only one tank, and get him protted up, and then spike him to death.

Griffonclaw · Apr 13, 2007, 03:30 AM // 03:30

I think that making each campaign harder meant that it became more and more diffucult for newer people to join in. I bought a new account just before Nightfall came out becuase my brother wanted his own account, and I found that it was almost impossible to give my Heroes a decent build because I had no skills unlocked. I also had no level 20 characters and almost no money. I didn't want to go back and play through prophecies because I was used to leveling up in Cantha, and I really did not feel like farming 24k just to get my heroes a new bar of skills for this new super build that would be nerfed in a month...

Anyway, thats just my 2 cents

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

PvE is already easy, why would ANet make it easier?

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydz

/signed

Some of these quests are simply too hard. My m8 was stuck for 2 weeks at the Gate of Madness. Man...is that a FRUSTRATING mission!

In my opinion, this is the ONLY difficult thing in PvE currently (besides the three elite areas.) Why? All of PvE you can go in with any random group, and with some brains you can push through. Once you get to Shiro in GoM though... good luck. Not to say that it can't be done - my ele did it with no stance breaker in the group, which meant no tank cause he was constantl dead - but that's cause we ALREADY knew what we were going up against. If you don't know just how powerful he is - BAM! You're wiped.

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2007, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Organized group > GoM with ease.

Destroyer1717 · Apr 13, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

The PvE game really isn't that hard. Except for the Gate of Madness. And even there, the only problem is fighting Shiro and the Lich. You just have to be smart about it, which basically means watch your aggro and pull. I henched my way through every mission in nightfall, save for GoM and Abbaddon's Gate, and I am no where near an uB3R-1337z player.

However, places like the Deep, Urgoz, and DoA do have to be changed. Its incredibly difficult to get groups there if you go PuGing, and the fact that you can't go with just heroes/hench doesn't help it. Most Mesmers and Assassins have no place there, or in the other elite missions. That's not to say that they should be made substantially easier. Just more accepting of multiple builds, classes, etc.

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2007, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

However, places like the Deep, Urgoz, and DoA do have to be changed. Its incredibly difficult to get groups there if you go PuGing, and the fact that you can't go with just heroes/hench doesn't help it. Most Mesmers and Assassins have no place there, or in the other elite missions. That's not to say that they should be made substantially easier. Just more accepting of multiple builds, classes, etc.

These areas are not meant for pugs. They are called elite for a reason.

Now, the only reason mesmers and assassins have no place in these areas are because they aren't that great for PvE. Even if they aren't that great, if you have a good guild, they will more then likely accept you to play that class. If not, don't be sad. Just bring another character.

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Organized group > GoM with ease.

Organized group > everything in PvE, including elites, but when should the line be drawn between organized and casual? Even good players can be taken by surprise by GoM. And what about newcomers to NF that didn't know who Shiro was or what skills he could possess?

Arkantos · Apr 13, 2007, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Organized group > everything in PvE, including elites, but when should the line be drawn between organized and casual? Even good players can be taken by surprise by GoM. And what about newcomers to NF that didn't know who Shiro was or what skills he could possess?

Casual players can easily beat it by being careful and knowing what they're up against. Also, how would a newcomer get to the second last mission of NF? Through the game he would change from newcomer to somewhat experienced.

Thargor · Apr 13, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Kirby

What I would like is that all classes can be used in all places. I don't own Nightfall, but speaking for Urgoz and the Deep, lets give an example mindset:

Player "X" buys Factions. He's like "oh yeah, the deep and urgoz is gonna rockz0r!" He makes a sin. When he finally get ferried after going through the campaign, he has a nice green weapon, full shrouded armor, he gets into urgoz. Guess what? Assassins have NO PLACE in urgoz. Angry, he goes to the deep. Guess what? Assassins have no place in the deep. Angrier still, he buys nightfall because the heroes might help him. Guess what? He gets to domain of anguish. And I'm sure assassins have no place there either.

And its the same for most classes that are pvp-oriented. Mesmers another HUGE one.

Point=Make all classes contribute in all areas. The builds are so cookie-cutter in urgoz/deep these days that everyone is so damned nostalgic, and does not want to try out any stupid build, and this is on top of taking 2 hours to make a group.

This is not ANET's fault. This problem is the fault of the players. If people would use their brains some no class would be left out of any area but too many people think a build posted on wiki or here on the forums is the only way to do things. I have personally seen every class in the game go thru the DoA with zero problems.

As for the original topic, I hope that when they dumb down normal mode that this will make you feel better. Personally I can't wait for hard mode as it might just put some challenge back into the game for me.

Kha · Apr 13, 2007, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Casual players can easily beat it by being careful and knowing what they're up against. Also, how would a newcomer get to the second last mission of NF? Through the game he would change from newcomer to somewhat experienced.

By newcomer, I mean someone that only has NF, therefore no knowledge of Shiro from Factions. How do you know what you're up against until you actually experience it? You can't, besides asking others or searching for it, not something everyone does or others help them with. Yes, anyone can easily beat it by being careful, but more careful than you have to be for most of the game. Insane AoE damage that Shiro puts out isn't something you experience very often, if at all in the rest of the game. Making a mistake in this battle is less forgiving than all of other non-elite PvE content in the game; it's a random encounter of higher difficulty thrown in.

Possible without knowing Shiro beforehand? Of course. Matches the scale of difficulty in the game? No.

LONGA · Apr 13, 2007, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Only place in RoT I want to change is Domian of Fear.Just too much patrols intersect each other.Very hard to kill one group without getting flanked from another patrol.

Apok Omen · Apr 13, 2007, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Seeing as how thousands upon thousands of players got through NF in less than 3 days when it came out, I would think that the game is too easy. However, ANet saw this and thus they promised to make a Hard Mode, which I am very much looking forward to.

Anyway... Request to make the Difficulty level HIGHER, please.

cyberjanet · Apr 13, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

all i can say is:

PvE hard? L M F A O

seriously, if you think PvE is hard, don't play this game..

Attitudes like this are the hardest...

Bob B · Apr 13, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

.... help players who arnt doing very well and handy cap players who are steam-rolling everything. that makes it easier for the novice player and harder for the "leet" player.

I agree and one way to do this is to have shrines more accessible. Kneel to summon a God and give yourself a bonus to remove some DP or a buff to heal for +3 or boost your attributes by +1 etc. These are things that are left to the player and if you are struggling you have the option, if you are a pro then ignore them. You could also have them at rebirth shrines so that those continually dying have an option to carry on instead of restarting from scratch because of a 60% DP. This way it isn't hard coded, players have the choice.

Mark Nevermiss · Apr 13, 2007, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Speaking of statistics, do you ever see people at the Gate of Fear forming groups to go farm the torment groups in the Domain of Fear outside?
I personally only see frustrated players begging for help do Kormir's Crusade (which I run and not fight way thru anyway)
I dont wont to cite other examples, but the only reason players venture into the RoT (I am not talking about the missions - they are not difficult once you get the hang of things) is either to cap a skill or to open a treasure chest or to run through a primary quest, very rarely do players do non-primary quests.

THE REWARD DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE DIFFICULTY. The UW and FoW are much easier than some of the "normal" RoT explorable areas.